In a recent interview, someone asked me, “If you think you’ve discovered the truth that there is no personal god, then how do you view the beliefs of Christians and other people of faith?”
I still think truth is objective. Either there is a personal god or there isn’t. Either I’m right or I’m not. Either religious ceremonies are sublime rituals that get us closer to our creator or ridiculous exercises devised by man to make us feel not so alone in this vast universe.
When I’m in my full-fledged atheist/deist mode, I have to admit that I can view people of faith as grown-up children who still believe in Santa Claus. In this space, the rituals of religion seem bizarre and a little hokey.
But most of the time, I’m not confident enough in my atheist/deist mindset to view people of faith as misled children who’ve grabbed on to an alternative to reality that cushions the hard truth that we are a) on our own and b) don’t have eternity to fall back on. I wish I had that confidence, just as I wish I had that confidence as a Christian.
For now, I can only say how I feel about my own journey. When I gain more insight, maybe I’ll be more strident in my views. But currently, I can only say how I feel about the authenticity of faith. I know too many people who are way smarter than me who are believers. It will take some time before I can take them on.
The bottom line, it seems to me, is that the god question is unprovable. And humility will serve me well.
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5 responses so far ↓
1 Tim Stroud // May 13, 2009 at 1:19 am
Don’t “take on” people, “take on” ideas.
Or you might get physically injured.
Unprovable, therefore no certainty. Where there is no certainty, be humble.
Showing humility is also a very attractive talent by itself. The humble are our friends. They do not confront us, or conflict with us.
Someone who has certainty may still exhibit humility. (Huh? What?)
The religious need not prove their god. They are certain in their faith. Faith is not science. Faith is not established in a courtroom.
Faith, by it’s very nature, does not need what many call “proof”.
Do you have a desire for certainty? Certainty of faith can fill that desire. Since the religious have certainty of faith they need not be humble.
But if they are humble then they are our friends.
If you require proof that there is no god, proof of a negative, then it seems that you are at self-imposed disadvantage in any debate. (Well, that sounds like a loser.)
Your debate opponent may have a great faith and therefore a great certainty. Perhaps your debate opponent does not require proof because faith does not require proof. Your debate opponent may, by indirect methods, require you, an advocate of proof, to prove a thing which, by your own admission, cannot be proven.
And perhaps they may exhibit that thing which you know serves you well - humility. (Wait a second! I’m the uncertain one! I get humility, not you!)
We discuss in order to enlighten and for ourselves to be enlightened. We debate in order to persuade. Humility persuades. And can be used by both sides of a debate.
2 ronmorrison // May 13, 2009 at 2:25 am
STOP!!!
I certainly can appreciate your (all of our) interest in friendly - non confrontational - methods of debate and persuasion. There’s no argument that not being argumentative serves the greater cause of a particular discussion or transfer of ideas. Certainly I can appreciate humility in others and in myself.
Let us be clear - there is no humility in stating the fact that the Theory of Gravity will pull an object towards earth - rather it is irresponsible and potentially harmful to “passively suggest” that gravity might do so. Gravity is perhaps best understood in the light of physics … so too is the human presence, evolution, and existence.
As a people we are far too late in declaring the nonsensical essence of religion. It is time - for all the worlds’ sake that we (you and I) be assertive: say what needs to be said. That’s it. Without an intent to harm. Without an intent to persuade, simply to educate and move on.
Here’s an example. Imagine for a moment that you were transported back in time to approximately 220BC with all the knowledge that you have now. Would you allow the early astronomer Eratosthenes of Cryene to contemplate the earths’ roundness? Would you “humbly” allow the peoples of that time to “hang on” to the “belief” that the world was flat and by so doing allow them to continue to act and behave in accordance with their belief? No you would not. You would declare what you know and moreover you would work to prove and disallow for their continued behavior relative to their beliefs regardless of how it made them feel.
William you’ve done a wonderful service to mankind in your book. Stay the course. Like me, like many non-believers and like many begrudgingly-religious people, you are certain that there is not a god, a type of god, a collection of gods, or any other supernatural force other than the collective forces of nature and time which said collection could be described as supernatural. Remember even when we talk about not knowing specifically what happened in the galaxies billions of years ago that “years ago” or time dimensions - like religion - are also constructs of man.
Stop dancing around the subject. The sooner we move from the notion of “belief” as something tangible and personal the sooner we’ll solve the vast majority of the worlds challenges.
Humility - regarding religion - is a nice tool for human interaction. Ignorance - regarding religion - has proven to be devastating to the human walk. When someone asks you if there is a god simply tell the truth - the truth that you know. No there isn’t. It’s as simple as that.
3 asanipe // May 13, 2009 at 4:28 am
I just read your piece, He had faith in his job back in 2007. I sent you an email to your old Times address but it bounced back. Then I googled you. And you’ve written a book, I see!
So now I’m visiting your sight and would like to encourage you.
How are you doing?
I will pray for the Lord Jesus to revisit you.
If we focus on the atrocities of this world, it will bring us down. We can’t take it.
And it’s the worst in the church. The liars in the church really hurt. They really hurt me.
But God doesn’t change. He stays the same. And you must never let go of Him.
Isn’t it worth it? One time. I believe if you really seek God, putting aside your unbelief and ask Him to show up for you, He will. Personally. He will.
Can you try one more time? You were right. Faith is a gift from God. If you pray to God to grant you faith, He will.
I’m distressed by the amount of lies that are out there. It’s like the world is one big lie. How do I know that? Because one day I sought the truth and found it. And everything else compared to the truth just doesn’t add up. The kingdom of Heaven is the total antithesis of what is happening here. Completely opposite.
I’ll be praying for you. And I mean that. I pray that you go back to the Book. And see if you believe it or not. Do not look to the world to support the truth. It’s not going to. The world continuously demonstrates and embraces the lie.
I pray that you seek God. Not the rationalization of the world. Do not let the enemy crush your inner soul.
And btw. In Scripture it says that God created man in his image and likeness. Ever since I was a child, I’d look around in the world, and I’d marvel at how wonderfully things are designed. When I use my Apple computer, I marvel at it’s design. It was designed by someone. When I look at the world- not at what man created, but when I think about the natural world, I marvel at the design of it. The world was designed by the Creator. Just because you don’t want to believe in a Creator, you can’t deny how wonderfully designed the world is. I don’t say this to sound snappy. Not at all. I say this because either you believe the Book or not. But go back to the Book. One more time. If you don’t believe it then, okay. But one more time. Go back. And call upon the Lord.
Jesus is coming back.
Love in Christ,
Aya
4 Paulie // May 13, 2009 at 4:45 am
You may not feel confident enough in your beliefs because you’re still relatively new to them. Being still so close to your former beliefs they don’t seem all that unreasonable. My experience, however, tells me that once you make the mental switch in your mind that there is no god, new information seems to just confirm that belief more and more, and eventually you will become very frustrated at all of the superstition and even evil in the world caused by religion. At that point it is no longer about humility. You will feel a need to speak out regardless of the fact that people will perceive you as arrogant.
I also think this perception that atheists are arrogant is just a form of prejudice. Most atheists only state that the evidence weighs in favor of the non-existence of god. This is not all that strong of a position. But just about all the Christians I know, will state enthusiastically that they know that not only that God exists, but that they know what God wants of us and know the answer to just about every moral question. What can be more arrogant than that?
I think the perception that atheists are arrogant is a result of our culture that gives respect to any religious perspective no matter how absurd, and the fact that atheists tend to justify their beliefs not on faith but on reason. If we said we didn’t believe in god because a fairy told us then we would not be perceived as arrogant, but if we say our beliefs are a result of our reasoning then that is arrogant because it suggests that others are just stupid. Apparently telling people they are evil and going to hell is humble, but telling people they are not being logical is arrogant.
5 Tim Stroud // May 15, 2009 at 1:38 am
Ronmorrison you really make it sound simple.
Question: “Is there a god?” Answer: “No.”
An overwhelming weight of human culture and history bears down on many people who consider the question. That obstacle alone is enough to give those people great reason to pause.
Is it intelligence or ignorance, courage or arrogance, wisdom or foolishness whereby we answer that question with certainty?
Perhaps we just have a natural urge to meet religious certainty with certainty of natural, scientific reasoning? Does that urge push us to confrontation?
Or, do we have such a distaste for the arrogance of anyone who would dare speak for the almighty creator of the universe that we would, as a matter of course, challenge their word, their authority? Even if we do not believe in god?
Everyone has to search their own mind, not only for the answer to the question, but for the reasons that they answer the question the way that they do.
I answer the question the same way that you do. But as a poorer student of the subject, and one of weaker will, I do not find it as simple as you.
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