I just got back from a gig as a panelist at the Los Angeles Times’ Festival of Books. I can’t lie. I got my ass kicked.
Here’s the problem. On one side, I was up against author/journalist Chris Hedges, a super-liberal intellectual (and former longtime foreign correspondent with the New York Times) who’s never in doubt and fond of quoting a wide variety of theologians, scholars, authors, etc. He had a huge following at the packed UCLA lecture hall, and spoke on why he didn’t believe in atheists.
On my other side, there was Rabbi David Wolpe, a super engaging, smart and self-aware man of faith who was able to get his points across with compassionate, humor and passion. He’s the kind of guy who God (if there is one) should produce more of.
The hour-long event quickly evolved into a high-level discussion of God, religious institutions and their role in society. It was like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I’m just not good at that. I ended up playing defense, not a good position for anyone to find himself in. At one point, I became flustered in front of the large crowd and stumbled on the word “monotheistic.” I can’t tell you what I said, but I knew I had effed it up somehow.
I’m guessing that the rabbi would have graciously let it go, but Hedges quickly pointed out my mistake. Thanks, buddy!
I don’t know what lessons to draw from this. I do find people with humility (like the rabbi) intensely attractive while arrogant (there’s a better noun coming next, but I won’t use it) folks are incredibly off-putting. There’s a sense among many intellectuals that they are somehow better (in a variety of ways) than the rest of us, but I just don’t buy it. In our country’s history, intellectuals have gotten us repeatedly in trouble. I don’t think they are any wiser than the rest of us.
In better intellectual example can be seen in our panel’s moderator, Zachary Karabell. He has a great intellect, but also possesses a sense of humor and modesty that makes him relatable.
Bottom line: I’d love to have a beer with Zachary and David. We could chew the fat and have a great time. Chris Hedges? Not so much.
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5 responses so far ↓
1 life_wo_frank // Apr 26, 2009 at 11:53 am
I wasn’t able to make it but two friends did and they said you were fine, I think you’re being hard on yourself.
2 taranaki // Apr 26, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Christopher Hitchens wiped the floor with Hedges a couple of years ago. You can read about it here -
http://www.alternet.org/story/52449/
KPFA uses the video for pledge dollars but you can see pieces of it online. The official approved snippet is at -
http://www.truveo.com/Christopher-Hitchens-Chris-Hedges-Debate/id/1297452396
3 utopianstrivings // Apr 26, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I saw your talk on Authors@Google. It was really nice to see you think a difficult issue through on a real and personal level. I am an American atheist who’s been living in Asia for the past four years. It’s an experience that’s put me in close proximity to not only Christianity, but Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam. Interestingly, despite my attempt to strictly adhere to PC guidelines, I have found that these religions have a disturbingly tremendous amount in common.
Personally, I find myself more and more convinced that Feuerbach is correct in holding that God is the creation of a culture, and the personality of that God (as humane or vengeful) directly reflects the progress that culture has made in developing its humanity.
Erich Fromm, a Critical Theorist influenced primarily by Freud and Marx, was an atheistic materialist who had some interesting insights on religion. He said religion could either be a life-giving or a life-sucking force. It could either empower people towards the good and thus help humanity build itself up, or it could strip people of their potential by prostrating them before an alien, superior force that actively practices condemnation.
I think that Fromm has really touched upon a fundamental point that’s directly relevant to the tensions you’ve observed regarding religion. The elderly woman you spoke of who was able to forgive her rapist, and thereby help create a path of redemption for him that would otherwise not exist, is an example of religion at its finest. The Catholic priests guilty of molestation, and the public’s positive reaction towards them (as well as the Church’s problematic policy regarding sexual abuse allegations) are indicative of a humanity-denying religion.
I also agree with your conclusions regarding the new wave of British atheists. I find them to be rather obnoxious and bullying in their convictions, too. Some people honestly need God, and I would never advocate trying to strip them of that belief. To do so is not only rude, it’s callous.
I respect your sincerity in trying to sort through issues regarding spirituality. It’d suck to see you let people like Chris Hedges or the British atheists deter you in participating in the discussion or persuade you into altering your authorial voice in order to compete. No one needs another stuffed head lining up to compete in a pissing contest, especially not over something as profound as spirituality or religion.
4 Tim Stroud // Apr 28, 2009 at 5:39 am
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? I think that’s a trick question. Angels don’t dance and Devils don’t cry.
And it would be a neat trick to be an atheist today without demoting any religious views. Conflict will necessarily arise.
Hitchens sees the conflict in 9/11 terms and Dawkins in Galileo terms. Neither willing to give an inch due to the stakes they see involved.
5 jungefrau123 // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:06 am
The longer you are an atheist, and the more you hear the same tired arguments for God and religion trotted out, the more comfortable you will become in your own style of presenting your thoughts.
As for the Rabbi, I have often wondered why a Jew would have anything to do with his deity, whether it existed or not. If there is any group of people who have been more neglected by their tribal god despite years of payers and rites, it has got to be the Jews. If pogroms and a holocaust can’t squelch a people’s faith, than nothing can. I suppose some would consider that a good thing, but I can’t say I do.
As for Hedges and history and philosophical arguments — you will get past those too. We don’t try to prove anything else in the universe via philosophy, so why a god? Thor either exists or he does not. Period. If he does, let him show himself. Let him do something amazing in front of us. If not, then we can assume he is not there. If All-that-is can be explained without aid of a deity, then there’s no shame in going with it. It can be as simple as that if you want it to.
I heard Hedges on a podcast one time and thought he sounded very articulate and interesting. I suppose he may have seen so much evil in the world done by both religionists and secularists that he is rather down on both.
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